Behind the Brand®

Jeff Adamson [00:00:08] Welcome to Behind the Brand presented by Neo. We take an inside look at the leaders behind today's most influential brands. I'm your host, Jeff Adamson. As co-founder of Neo Financial and SkipTheDishes, I'm fascinated by what it takes to build great companies. On this podcast, we'll learn from leaders that are reimagining, transforming, and innovating in the financial and retail industries across Canada. Let's get going!

Joining us on the show today is Michele Guimond, Vice President of Marketing at Mountain Equipment Company. Michele is a creative and skilled leader with a passion for building strong cultures and teams. She’s a strong believer in the power of storytelling to elevate a brand, and prior to joining MEC, she led marketing at top-tier retail brands, including Arc’teryx and Aritzia. As VP of Marketing at MEC, Michele leads the group that is responsible for sharing MEC’s brand with the world.

Established in 1971 as a grassroots co-operative with 6 members and about $65 of operating capital, MEC has grown to become Canada’s premier destination for outdoor apparel and equipment. A strong backer of community initiatives, MEC has and continues to invest millions of dollars into non-profit organizations that support outdoor recreation and conservation.

I am extremely excited about this podcast today. Welcome to the show, Michele!

Michele Guimond [00:1:24] Thanks for having me.

Jeff [00:01:25] Let's talk about your journey to MEC. Tell us kind of where you got started in your career. And how the heck did you end up at MEC?

Michele [00:01:34] A short version through that, I think if you had asked me 20 years ago what my dream job was, I probably would've said Lead of Marketing for MEC so…

Jeff [00:01:44] Congrats.

Michele [00:01:45] I'm Canadian, born and raised in Vancouver, although I lived abroad for, for years.

Jeff [00:01:49] Where'd you live?

Michele [00:01:50] I lived in the UK and between the UK and France for about 11 years.

Jeff [00:01:54] Wow.

Michele [00:01:55] Did some time in the French Alps, which was super fun. Was a bit of a ski bum in my earlier days. But I think being really inspired around the outdoors and, and how it shaped how I live and my career.

I'm a West Coaster, I love mountain biking and trail running and Nordic skiing and back country skiing, and backpacking and super passionate about all those things. And then the other side is marketing. I've always loved leading teams and creative, and so, you know, you combine those two things that there's no better place for me to be than MEC ultimately.

So, you know, I did my stint at Arc’teryx for five years, which gave me a really good grounding in outdoor retail land and leading awesome and growing awesome teams. And so this was an opportunity that, that was really a dream for me.

Jeff [00:02:38] You, you also went to Emily Carr, is that true?

Michele [00:02:39] I did, yeah. I definitely, when I said marketing, I thought for a while that, you know, being a creative director was more the route in for me. And what I realized is creative isn't just about, you know, painting and drawing and design, it's really about how you think. Emily Carr was a really good grounding and, and how to think creatively and strategically. And so it gives me a really good empathy in leading creative teams.

Jeff [00:03:04] Mm-hmm.

Michele [00:03:05] And, uh, yeah, I'm really passionate about facilitating creative.

Jeff [00:03:08] I think on the East coast, it may not be as well known. Why is Emily Carr kind of so well known in the creative space?

Michele [00:03:14] Well, Emily Carr was a very famous Canadian artist. Emily Carr is, you know, one of the top design schools in the country. At the time that I was applying for [it], it was very difficult to get in. I mean, quite frankly, I was looking at doing my MBA or going to Emily Carr, so that probably tells you a little bit about the two sides of my brain. I'm a total left brain, right brain. I've been told I make amazingly beautiful spreadsheets, so…

Jeff [00:03:39] You don't hear that every day from people who are, you know, are the more creative side of things.

Michele [00:03:43] For sure. And so I thought, you know what? I'm just gonna spend four years and what an amazing experience that was. Especially coming into it a bit later on in life. I can't remember how old I was but I certainly wasn't straight outta high school. I'd traveled for 11 years before then and, and I thought this is a really good place for me to just think through what I wanna do and come at that from the creative side. And if that didn't work out, I was still gonna go and do my MBA, so.

Jeff [00:04:05] Yeah. You mentioned you traveled for 11 or 12 years. Was that something where you're just like, “Hey, I wanna go out and experience the world before I really kind of buckled down on my career”? Like what was the motivation to travel and do you feel that has had a big impact on how you view your life and your career?

Michele [00:04:22] A hundred percent. I mean, I think there's those that come up in their career and I was always really envious of people that I knew that were like, I wanna be a lawyer, I wanna be a doctor. And they had this like straight-line ambition about what they wanted to be and do. And probably just now that I've given up on thinking that I'm a failure because I didn't, I didn't, I didn't know, you know?

And I think for traveling, I was one of these people that came outta high school and had no idea. Like I had no idea what I was really passionate about. So, you know, I did the, I'm gonna go off backpacking for six months and six months turned into 11 years. I think it was, it was really just disconnecting me from maybe an identity that was born and where I grew up, and, and you let go of that and you start to experience different cultures, being more independent, and I think I really needed that to, to grow and challenge myself, be resourceful and entrepreneurial, which I would say all these things will lead me into to skillset I definitely rely on at MEC today.

Being able to be resourceful in different environments is really important. I think that's probably what it taught me the most. And, you know, and I was still led around by my passions. Like I said, I did three different ski seasons in the French shops and was a bit of a ski bum, and I wouldn't take that time back for anything in the world. It was about, you know, being in a new community and leaning into my passions and being in the mountains every day. And I still try and live my life that way.

Jeff [00:05:47] Growing up, I remember my mom and dad would always say like, “You've got the rest of your life to work. Do this while you can, because later on you're gonna get pulled into all these obligations like mortgages and careers and kids and dogs and plants”, or whatever it is that you've got that you need to take care of.

I think it is overlooked though, I think people often are like really in a rush to get that job or to get that place and they really overlook the things that they're learning in the process of just kind of experiencing life and maturing by really pursuing something that might be a little bit unorthodox but can give you something as valuable as an MBA for perhaps.

Michele [00:06:23] Totally. And you know, I think it's almost cliche to say these days, but it's what makes you unique, right? You bring your unique point of view and your passions into what you do. And I certainly wouldn't be where I am today had I not done that. You know, had I not taken that time to explore and, but continue to be passionate about outdoors and community.

Jeff [00:06:44] And I imagine too, just even hearing you talk about how you went to Emily Carr, you can spreadsheet with the best of them, you've traveled so you've been exposed to a lot of different cultures. Has that really equipped you to be able to kind of work with a really, really diverse group of people and bring them together? Or do you still find that a challenge like many of us do?

Michele [00:07:02] Yeah. I mean, I think if I have, if I have one strength, it's really building out diverse groups of teams that work well together. And I think understanding that not everybody has this straight-line trajectory and like, is also really valuable because you can pull people in for different skill sets that balance each other out and work really well together. It's kind of why I get up in the morning.

You know, at Arc’teryx I started with a team of three and ended up with a team of 45 and here it's been a mix of, you know, rebuilding from long-standing talent in the business, I call them our Brand Custodians, and then bringing new talent in. And so, you know, I find it really exciting to have different people work together towards different goals and facilitating creative brainstorming. I mean, those are things that you learn at a place like Emily Carr and, you know, and then combined with a kind of living in a lot of different places and meeting different people and being very curious. I think those things, are still, you know, make me who I am and, and hopefully set me up for success and, and building strong teams.

Jeff [00:08:08] So you've worked with the who's who of retail. I'm just looking in and, you know, you've worked with Aritzia, Arc’teryx, you've even worked for VSSL, which is like an amazing kind of outdoor brand as well.

You’re VP of Marketing now at MEC. Tell us for, for those that may not know the origin story of MEC, how did it get started and where are we at today?

Michele [00:08:31] Yeah, so MEC started in the seventies. The founders were stuck in a tent for a few days, I believe, in Baker in Washington, and they were, I think they were stuck in a storm and they were thinking through, you know how REI was this great store for getting all types of outdoor gear and, and really good quality outdoor gear. And that, that really didn't exist anywhere, certainly in Vancouver, and then in Canada.

So they were very inspired by, you know, the REI model in the US. You know, they would always go across the border and grab gear and then, and then bring it back up here. And so it was really born out of like, how do you build a central place to get great quality, affordable outdoor gear with a community-lens around it, right? And that was really worn out of it being a co-op, so you know, people being invested in the brand. And that was its birthplace. We celebrated our 50th anniversary just when I came in the business.

That was the starting point. And it's gone through, you know, different brand identities and iterations. For those that don't know, you know, we had this Twin Peak logo that, you know, a lot of people who started their adventuring outdoors with their backpacks... I know I had my, the first time I went to Europe, I had an MEC backpack and…

Jeff [00:09:47] Yeah, same here.

Michele [00:09:48] You know, I wore that thing like a badge and, you know, you'd see another one when you were away and you're like, “Oh, where are you from?” And it was really a sense of identity, in both outdoors and being Canadian.

Jeff [00:09:58] But why was this started as a co-op? Because you don't see that happening very much. Is that a seventies, eighties thing or?

Michele [00:10:05] For sure there was seventies ideology in there, but I think if we think about the concept of a co-op, it's really about community, right? It's really about like-minded people coming together on a particular sense of values and commonality and interests and how the business should be run. Fundamentally, that's what a co-op’s about, right? Everybody's got a stake in it.

Jeff [00:10:26] Those seem like undeniably good things though. Like if I'm, if I'm thinking, okay, should I just incorporate, start a business? What you're telling me sounds way better. Like it sounds like you know you're owned by your members, you're all aligned. Why don't we see these starting up today? Like, or are they starting up and we just don't know about it?

Michele [00:10:43] Yeah, I mean, it's a very good question. I fundamentally believe in community values. I don't think a co-op's the only way to go though. I think you can build a brand with a sense of community that is really inspiring like-minded people to come together. It can still be values-based. I don't think it needs to be a co-op to be those things.

You know, if we think about Vancity, [it] would be the other co-op, the one that's most familiar to me…

Jeff [00:11:13] Credit unions in general.

Michele [00:11:14] Yeah. And, but the other side of that is transparency, right? And so I think modern businesses need a sense of transparency. They need a sense of community, membership, loyalty, all these, all of these pieces that other businesses are leaning into. So I don't think it has to come uniquely through a co-op lens.

Jeff [00:11:33] I don't think co-ops have a monopoly on being a values-based organization, and certainly it's not impossible to give employees ownership in the business as well.

So, where is MEC today? So MEC started out solving a problem where, why wasn't there kind of Canadian-based retailers focused on the outdoors? These pioneers, they kind of started bringing the gear in, stood up MEC as a co-op. Give us kind of the last few years. The transition to privately-held business now. What has that transition been like?

Michele [00:12:02] Yeah, I mean, you know, like I said, I'm a long standing brand fan and user of MEC, like so many…

Jeff [00:12:06] I think everyone is.

Michele [00:12:07] Everyone is, exactly! Which means that everybody really cares about what's happening with MEC.

Jeff [00:12:13] I've never heard, I've never heard someone say, “You know what? I just don't like MEC.” I've actually never heard that in my whole life. Like you'll always hear people complain about a brand cuz it's only a matter of time.

But like even just before we started recording, I was talking with the crew here and we're just talking about like, it's MEC. MEC owns the outdoors. Like it's, your employees are so passionate about the outdoors. They actually are knowledgeable about the outdoors. Like, it's just this iconic Canadian, like historical brand. It's reliable. It gets you outside. To me it just, I, I could go on and on, but like the, the amount of power that you guys have just to me is exceptional. Like the amount of goodwill that you have from Canadians. I sincerely mean that.

Michele [00:12:53] You know, so the recent history of MEC, we talked about identity changes. So we talked about the original peak logo and that was, had the co-op attached to it, but it also had an identity of a mountain brand, right? And that was really, really important to the loyalty that was built behind it and the equity built behind it.

There was the move to the square, which was also like, it's amazing to me, and I love the history of this. When we were going through the update of our current logo, what’s so interesting is to go back through the archives and there was a character recreated out of it called Monty, and it was based on when they first moved from the peak to the square. There was a guy that built himself a costume in the shape of the peaks and rode his bicycle in protest outside the stores because he was so mad that they went towards the square. And I think the square, I'm a brand person, I think it, it's really interesting and there's, there's nothing against the, you know, previous marketing and brand leads of a hugely successful business. But I think…

Jeff [00:13:51] Here we go [laughs].

Michele [00:13:52] Internally, internally, everybody went “Well, like, are we a square? Like, like what does that represent to us? You know, like we're mountain people.” So there was a bit of ubiquity built into that square that didn't resonate with staffers, first and foremost. And then a lot of Canadians were up in arms about the identity crisis then. And I think more to the point then, at that time, MEC, even in terms of their product line and being a little bit more front-country focused in terms of their assortment. I think that was a real challenge when you try to be everything to everyone.

And then there was business challenges, rapid expansion, you know, cash flow, you know, business challenges that every business will face when you're trying to grow. I think without that really tight strategy and vision around it, trying to expand to too many things that ended up in the fall of the co-op.

Now I, like everyone else, you know, I get asked this all the time, you know, I get the, “Can, I have my $5 back?” and I'm used to dealing with all those types of questions. When I was first having conversations coming into this, of course, I would be crazy to not have trepidation about coming into there and being like, “Oh, like what's it gonna be like to be owned by a US business? And what's the vision for this and what's the culture gonna be like?” And I was very reassured to come into the business with our CEO Eric Klaus. And, you know, you talked about Jay Taylor, who's our former CEO and then Adam Ketcheson, you talked about. Adam Ketcheson and I worked together at Arc’teryx for many years.

Jeff [00:15:30] Yeah, I've heard great things about all of them, actually.

Michele [00:15:33] Yeah! And we had a great working relationship and it was like, here we go again. Like, you know, it was so fun at Arc’teryx and then I thought, I, like, I gotta take this opportunity, I gotta try, right? Like, we need MEC. We need MEC to win. I'm like, where am I gonna go on my multi-day backpacking trips to buy my space food and my backpacks and the best socks in the business? Like I wanna be able to go to one place and keep that. And I was very reassured in the early conversations I had about the role about [it] continuing to be a values-led brand.

You know, like there was still the million dollars that was protected for outdoor impact programs. Sustainability is still core to our business. We have been through the roughest three years in retail from, you know, the covid and the ships. And then, but as soon as, as soon as we were allowed to go back into the stores, our members wanted to go back into the stores. Then it was like, okay, how do we bring back community events and so all the things that made MEC special and were really important to me, they wanted me to keep leaning into. And so bringing back the peaks into the logo was a recommitment to our space in the backcountry and being a true mountain brand. Putting the peaks back on the Vancouver store was such an awesome like, brand career highlight. I'm like, “Yes!” So great.

Jeff [00:16:48] Mm-hmm. It's like one of those kind of pinch me moments.

Michele [00:16:51] Yeah. Very emotional for a lot of staffers too. And so, you know, going back to it, does the company, can it still have the values of a co-op?

You know, we've evolved for sure, but we're staying true to what was the creation and what was the original intent for MEC. But we need to evolve to meet a modern consumer need as well. So we continue to lead with values and great gear and great product and it's an exciting time.

Jeff [00:17:18] Yeah, and I think that's really well said Michele. And I think, I mean, retail is so difficult. Competing with Amazon, with Walmart, with Costco, with Canadian Tire. And then a consumer retailer, you know? So you've got physical space, you've got e-comm, you need to integrate the two you, you need to be able to recruit the best people to do that. And then Covid occurs, a lot of brands got flatfooted cuz maybe their e-comm wasn't as built out as it needs to be.

Michele [00:18:31] Again, there's no critique of our former leadership teams that were here and all the great people that were involved for 50 years in making MEC what it is. But the one thing I would say, like I go around all the retail stores and cuz that's really where MEC was born and it’s so important that, [we have] that connection with our staffers.

So if we think about like what is really important about MEC? Well it's, it's the expert advice and it's really great priced gear, in one location. You know that you can go in and it's backed by, you know, our Rock Solid Guarantee, because we believe in our advice and we believe in the product we put in the stores.

I don't know whether I should say this, but I loved the Broadway location, like so many. I was like, I loved that location. And we've still got some older format stores that just crushed, like they, they're built in embedded communities and they feel good, you know, they feel a little bit, but they're all fancy, right? Like and you don't need that. You don't need that cuz it's about the gear. And it's about the people. And so we've inherited this super fancy Vancouver store that was built. Yes, it's a phenomenal space, but I hate to think about the amount of money it costs to build. And, and that opened in March, 2020 and, you know…

Jeff [00:19:43] Tough timing.

Michele [00:19:44] It was like a lot of money to spend on a retail space. And I'm a believer in retail and I love, I love retail spaces, but you know, for the MEC brand, I will take that store and use it for community events, it's a great space. But was a lot of money to spend on a retail space, you know? And as members, it's like, was that the right amount? I don't know, right? Like, did that add value to the experience? I don't know.

So, you know, as a leadership team, where we're really looking now is like, where do we cascade the value to our members, right? Like, that's, that's ultimately what matters and it's through the right product that's gonna last a lifetime, you know? The values of buy once and buy right. And, you know, looking at, there was just an article and I'd love everybody to check it out, that our Chief Commercial Officer just responded to some questions from press about Earth Month and everything that MEC's doing and looking at our supply chain and looking at our product and really, really ensuring that our products are the most sustainable and then holding our brand partners that we carry accountable to those pieces as well.

So this is what we're really focused on. We are more barebones as a company than we were as a co-op. I'm really excited and really proud of the work that's being done and the spaces that, for me as a consumer, really matter.

Jeff [00:20:57] Yeah and you can see it come through too. Like even since the transition, like you're seeing more and more people are coming back. A lot of brands will go through big changes. And this is kind of an interesting one because on the surface, it can appear almost like an identity change, but it's really not. But what recommendations would you have for other brands that are going through these?

Yeah, on the surface it just looks like this massive change but at the end of the day, if you took someone today and you went into an MEC, you took someone 10 years ago, you go into an MEC, there's a lot of similarities. It's good quality, it's a great brand, good service. So, when you think about other brands that are going through changes that can seem dramatic, what advice would you have for them? And even in, even specifically in the marketing front too.

Michele [00:21:37] You know, a brand mark should be reflective of not only where you are today, but where you're going. And so, you know, putting a peak logo back on our MEC-label product and our stores is a commitment to being a mountain brand. We are not gonna start making yoga wear or anything else, or jeans, et cetera, right?

Jeff [00:21:58] Lululemon’s safe.

Michele [00:21:59] Yeah, we're not gonna make yoga wear. When we put the peaks back in the logo, then it allows our MEC label team, especially internally, so our product, our MEC-label product should be the manifestation of who we are as a brand. And we use terms about being, being really rooted in human powered adventures. In wild spaces, right? And so that logo is really something that the teams can respond to internally and understand what our focus is, right? At an emotional level, but also a functional level. That also allows our merchandising teams to assort product that are really around human-powered adventures.

Now we do cater to the front-country and family camping, you know? But we really focus on high quality product that has low impact and is the protection of the wild spaces that we play. So for me and for the rest of the exec team and everybody internally, it just allows a center focus around the values and, and values, but also the manifestation. Like the outputs of the brand.

So branding, you're right. Could just be a mark, could be anything, you know, but I think as long as it reflects and provides guidance internally as well as externally, I think that's really, really important.

Jeff [00:23:15] And that's actually pretty consistent with what I've heard members wanting, you know, like people wanting homage to the backcountry, the roots. You've mentioned Michele a few times about value-based brands. This is something a lot of companies do struggle with, is what do we stand for? Why do we exist? Could you walk through that as it pertains to MEC?

Michele [00:23:39] I mean, I think it's what you hold yourself accountable to. So what do the teams hold themselves accountable to? It's the best gear, right? And, and we talked about that. Like the gear that we carry, we have probably the best return policy. Those, if you know, you know. We call it the Rock Solid Guarantee, right? And we've had various stages of people knowing that maybe a little too much, but at the same time, it's core, right? Because that's the trust that you have with your members of, I'm gonna come in and you're gonna have the gear that you believe in assorted in the store, and you're gonna have somebody who really does outdoor stuff, right? Like really gets after it. So our staffers are the best in the business like we have people that are just so excited to talk about Gore-Tex, three-ply Gore-Tex all day every day. And like you're just getting into climbing or if you're an advanced climber, like they're just so excited to talk about that.

Jeff [00:24:29] Yeah, it's so true. I mean, MEC employees, like I was just in to get some hiking shoes, running shoes, like getting all pumped up for the running season. I just nerded out. I think his name was Garth. So shout out to Garth if he's listening. It was just so cool cuz I don't wanna make a mistake like when you're out in the backcountry, especially like you don't want to. Get something that's gonna break and leave you stranded, you know, or in a tough spot.

And to know that the people who you're talking about not only do they know the answers, but they actually love talking about them too, which just gives you so much more comfort when you're buying something that maybe your life might depend on.

Michele [00:25:03] Right, and then how does that manifest? How do you ensure that with our staffers, which are the most important portion of the business? So we've got field courses where we send them out, you know, and do you know, hikes. There's nothing, I think the Head of Retail Operations, like you don't, there's nothing that helps you learn more about three-ply Gore-Tex than going for an eight hour hike in Vancouver rain, right?

Jeff [00:25:23] In November and Vancouver.

Michele [00:25:25] Yeah [laughs], then you can really speak to your consumer about that. So we do field courses. We've also got programs where we sponsor trips for staffers, like dream trips that they wanna go on. We're bringing something in called Rad Days, which is a play on the Rad Pants, which is one of the key franchises that we have. And so people can be like, “I'm having a Rad Day,” and you know, they can go off climbing or trail running.

Jeff [00:25:49] One of my employees was just talking about the Rad Pants and I was like, Rad Pants, what is that? And she's like, you don't know Rad Pants. Like every kid had Rad Pants. I still have them.

Michele [00:25:56] Well, I don't know every kid, but every dad had Rad Pants for a while [laughing].

Jeff [00:26:01] [Laughing] Yeah.

Michele [00:26:02] So it's ensuring, again, values is how it lands, how it becomes guidance internally. So we wanna have staffers that are passionate at every level. They may be beginners, you know.

Jeff [00:26:13] But Michele, you're talking about the actions though. Like you're not, to me, like when people talk about values, they're like integrity and compassion. But you're talking about get outside wearing three-ply Gore-Tex, get drenched. That's very different than what a lot of companies, to them values is just something that they walk by when they walk into the office.

Michele [00:26:32] No, we live it. Right? Like that's the really important portion, you know? And then we talk about community. Our community programs have been, you know, so integral to who MEC is, so equally we still have our Outdoor Impact partners, so preservation of Wild spaces, and that's through community activation and being involved in helping maintain, you know, say like Trail Days on the North Shore.

You know, we've got our Leave No Trace partnership, which is a, we are some of the founding partners of say, POW Canada and we continue to be platinum partners with them, one of only two.
And, you know, these are still really fundamental. So it's, it's walking the walk, effectively.

Jeff [00:27:09] Are the 10Ks coming back?

Michele [00:27:11] Oh, I'd love to bring them, the race series back. I get that, “Yeah $5. But also can you bring the race series back?”

Jeff [00:27:16] I know it's so hard, it's so hard to, to say that you're gonna do them and do them poorly. I totally, uh, respect that. If you guys are like, Hey, we want to do them. But we want to do them really, really well.

Michele [00:27:25] Yeah. Right now we're leaning into smaller scale. Well actually I say smaller scale events, we have Tommy Caldwell coming to the store next Wednesday in Vancouver. Sold out!

Jeff [00:27:33] Are you serious?

Michele [00:27:34] Yeah!

Jeff [00:27:35] From ‘The Dawn Wall’?

Michele [00:27:36] Yep.

Jeff [00:27:37] No way.

Michele [00:27:38] So we've got, we've got…

Jeff [00:27:39] Take him out to Calgary, please.

Michele [00:27:39] [Laughing] We've got, we've got quite the cast. We've got him and Sonnie Trotter, our latest ambassador, Sean McColl and our ambassador Emma Contaoe in the store next week. Sold out in, I think just over an hour.

Jeff [00:27:51] So just a, just to touch on Tommy, if those of you that may not know who he is, this is an absolute climbing legend, one of the greats, if not the greatest of all time up there with Honnold. And there, there's a great documentary called ‘The Dawn Wall’.

Like at one point he had been like, cuz he was in like Tajikistan and he got like captured by some like rebel army and had to like, escape and got out, came back to America, and then ended up being one of the first to climb, you know, a certain route up a, a certain face in Yosemite. Is that right?

Michele [00:28:19] Yeah, I mean he's, you know, with Alex Honnold probably, you know, one of the top climbers in the world. And the other thing that's really important about Tommy is he is also a sustainability and climate activist and he's coming to us via, his being an ambassador with Edelrid, who's probably one of the most sustainable climbing brands in the world, and one of the first brands that MEC ever carried. So a very long standing partnership there, and probably one of the first events we had back in the store. And I mean, he definitely draws a crowd and it's just awesome. Really excited.

Jeff [00:28:52] Mm-hmm. I could probably talk all day about the value side of things and I think for those of you that are wondering what it looks like to be an authentic brand that lives their values, go to an MEC, buy something, ask some questions, and then you're gonna find out that they, they walk the talk.

I do wanna touch on some leadership stuff because I think a lot of people will look at Michele and just be like, “Oh my God, she's worked for the who's who of retail.” I think this is kind of becoming more and more common of a topic, the difference between a boss and a leader. What does that mean to you? What do you see as being the difference?

Michele [00:29:21] Yeah. I mean, I could talk all day. I don't even know where to start with that one. I mean, I hope I've never been a boss [laughs]. I mean, if you think about the term right? It's like telling someone what to do as opposed to giving them a big, hairy, ambitious goal. And smart people will take that and I feel like they end up bossing me around, right? So [laughing], saying what they wanna do. And I love having a super impassioned, empowered team that loves working together and loves coming up with great ideas. And putting them in positions where they know how to win and nurturing that, right? I love being part of facilitating great teams, doing great work.

I, you know, I mentioned in the beginning, and I can't say enough, it's why I come to work every day. I don't really view my own successes as my own. I said if I had one superpower, it's about hiring people that are smarter than me and let 'em fly, you know? Giving them the tools and the, and the right environment for them to win because that's what everybody wants ultimately. So, yeah, I mean, I think good leadership is really about understanding, you know, how to create lanes for people to win.

Jeff [00:30:32] It's like you said around the, like creating that goal if you have to tell people what to do versus create an environment where they actually want to do what's going to help the team and the company and, and your mission, it's just a totally different vibe between the two and I think that everyone's felt it.

Michele [00:30:45] So maybe that's exactly the difference. Like a boss is gonna tell you how to do it, they're gonna tell you what you need to do and how to do it. A leader is gonna say, here's our common goals, how are you gonna do it? Right? Like, you tell me how to get it done.

Jeff [00:30:57] Yeah. Yeah. And, and also just making sure that you're putting people in a position where they can succeed or, and you know, when they, when they need that extra support, that you can provide it. And sometimes you can say, “Hey, here's this big, hairy, audacious goal. Go ahead and do it.” But then they're just not equipped to succeed, and then…

Michele [00:31:10] Well, and that's a lot about strength-based coaching. You know, that's, that's the modern thing. And, and I'm a firm, firm, firm believer in your career, lean into your strengths. Like things you're not good at, let go of. Like sure in our day-to-day, we all have things that we have to do that I'm like, um, but I think setting people up for success is also like, you know, helping them see where they're maybe blind to what their superpower is, you know?

And maybe thinking that, like me, I'm like creative. I was at Emily Carr and I thought, I'm gonna be the best creative director and what I realized, I'm really good at putting creative teams together, but there's people that are way better at actually creating than I am. And that's okay, right? Like sure I dedicated four years of education towards that. But I realized my superpower is actually about putting teams together rather than actually, you know, creating the work myself. So, you know, I think that's where you can help people in your team do better, is to help them uncover what their superpowers are and what they're really great at, what they love doing, like what lights them up.

Jeff [00:32:12] Yeah. And not being ashamed that you're not good at certain things, like encountering people who are 10x better than you at something and being like, “Oh my God.” I find that so motivating when I see people kind of do the things that they're the best at and I'm like, “This is incredible. I'm never gonna be as good at this as you are. And that's okay. You know, I'm not as passionate about it as you are and I'm never gonna dedicate as much focus as you have in that thing. But let's find out how we can get you doing more of that, because then we're all gonna win.”

I wanna touch on the last piece is, I feel like the outdoors is something that we all know is good for us, but for many people you spend a lot of time indoors. Especially like I grew up in Saskatchewan, it's cold out much of the year and I feel like we know that it's good for us so then like, what do you think is really holding us back from spending more time outdoors? What are we solving for that can get more people outside to and to help people live healthier lives?

Michele [00:33:06] Yeah, I mean that's a tough question and you can't really answer that question without dealing with a lack of equity in the outdoors, right? And cuz there are barriers. It's one thing to say, you know, it's very healthy, great for us all, but actually the outdoors has had such a lack of equity in that space. And has actually been quite a privileged environment to be in.

You know, a lot of barriers to getting people in the outdoors could be about gear, can be about access. It can be about time, it can be about confidence. Not seeing other people like you in the outdoors. You know, I've been a woman in business and I've been a woman in the outdoors for my whole life, and I can say there's a lack of equity that have existed equally in both those realms.

Jeff [00:33:46] Yeah.

Michele [00:33:47] It used to be that mountain biking was [a] very gendered activity. Now I love going to Whistler Bike Park and seeing that, you know, it's like a 50/50 split. So I think there's barriers to enjoying the outdoors either through not growing up with that level of culture, not having access to it either by where you live or what you do.

So, you know, a lot of our programming, we also like to think about how do we bring people to the outdoors and give them the tools to do it, like how to camp for the first time. You know, I grew up, I was lucky, I had parents [who] took me camping every weekend, but you know, I have other friends who didn't grow up with that, with that culture, and it can be quite daunting. And expensive.

We're hoping to bring back some of our gear rental programs at MEC. This is a goal for us, so stay tuned. This is probably an early announcement, so hold me to it.

Jeff [00:34:36] Did you just drop this? On Behind the Brand? Is that a drop?

Michele [00:34:40] I'm doing it cautiously, so, yeah. Uh, yeah, we're gonna dip our toe back into a gear rental program this year because I think that is huge. I think we need to think about giving people the tools, both knowledge and experience of how to access the outdoors also, and respectful ways. So we’ve got our Leave No Trace programming. We're really leaning into “How to’s”, you know.

So yes, it's a spiritual experience and it is healthy for us all. So we wanna make sure that everybody has access to that and knows how to do that, right? Lots of opportunities for us, through our community programming to look at what are the barriers for people in accessing this very magical experience.

Jeff [00:35:20] We're so lucky to live in Canada too. I mean, there's just so much to experience.

We've gotta end it here, Michele. I just wanna personally say that I'm so grateful for you taking the time to come and share with us your own experience, your own journey to MEC. And I'm also incredibly grateful just what MEC is doing for not only Canadians, but also the environment. I am a fan, I always will be a fan and customer. Just thank you so much.

Michele [00:35:48] Thank you. Thanks for the opportunity.

Jeff [00:35:50] Where can people follow you? Is it Twitter, Instagram? Is it LinkedIn? Is it just go buy something from MEC?

Michele [00:35:57] Go buy something from MEC. Follow along, follow the MEC Instagram. We've got amazing community leaders in that space. You know, stay tuned, we've got lots of awesome things coming. LinkedIn, I'm trying to be more diligent on there and, um, but I'm also very passionate about my work and what I do, so I'm not as diligent about that as maybe I should be, but I try and share out from there also the the great pieces of work we're doing at MEC.

Jeff [00:36:22] Thanks, Michele.

Jeff [00:36:28] Thank you for tuning into Behind the Brand. If you enjoyed today's show, please subscribe and leave a review on your preferred podcast platform. If you’re interested in learning more about Neo Financial, visit us at neofinancial.com.

Behind the Brand is a production of Neo Financial and MediaLab YYC. Hosted by Jeff Adamson. Strategy, research, and production by Keegan Sharp, Alana Tefledzuk, and Kyle Marshall.