Behind the Brand®

Jeff Adamson [00:00:08]  Welcome to Behind the Brand presented by Neo. We take an inside look at the leaders behind today's most influential brands. I'm your host, Jeff Adamson. As co-founder of Neo Financial and SkipTheDishes, I'm fascinated by what it takes to build great companies. On this podcast, we'll learn from leaders that are reimagining, transforming, and innovating in the financial and retail industries across Canada. Let's get going!

I am excited to introduce Jake Karls, Co-Founder and Chief Rainmaker of Mid-Day Squares, a functional chocolate bar company. With a knack for telling compelling stories in an exciting way, Jake is a born hype man.

In 2018, Lezlie Karls, Jake’s sister, and Nick Saltarelli developed the perfect product but they didn’t want to just sell the product, they wanted to create a community. They wanted the brand to explode. Insert Jake. Four and a half years later, Mid-Day Squares has built their own factory in Montreal, employs over 60 people, and are on track to exceed $17 million in sales.

Welcome to the show, Jake!

Let me start from when I saw you first. We are active on LinkedIn, that's kind of where our audience is, and I was scrolling through and I just started seeing you pop up on things. And for our listeners who haven't seen Jake Karls, our guest today, he's wearing kind of like tinted aviators, looks like a silk shirt with a collar popped on it. The hair is feathered, yet lethal.

You were showing an amazing amount of gratitude, though, to a lot of people, the people saying things about Mid-Day Squares, and you were like, “I appreciate you”, you know, giving fist bumps, high fives, like, you know on a lot of these threads. When I looked at your profile and I saw the image, I was like, “This is a guy that doesn't take himself too seriously. But is also in it to win it.”

Jake Karls [00:01:53] Yo Jeff, fires me up! I think LinkedIn's that platform that has too much corporate stuff on it, so when you give a little bit of humanization, momentum, energy, good vibes, but also show some transparency and vulnerability, you really start to connect with people at a very deep level.

And when we launched Mid-Day Squares, the company I'm one of the co-founders of, our whole strategy was: Let's build a reality show on entrepreneurship. Let's show the good, the bad, the ugly of how we build this business. From literally therapy sessions to milestones like raising money to winning big in a retailer.

That way the consumer, we can turn to an actual fan because they're part of this journey. And you know, we're a chocolate bar meets a protein bar but get rid of all the junk that's in protein bars. So it's a saturated market and the only way for us to stand out is to make you, as a consumer or a fan, feel like you're buying from a friend or a family member when you go to those grocery stores and you see 40,000 other products, and again, we use LinkedIn, we use Instagram, we use TikTok to tell that story every single day.
And the way we built our team is, it's a media company. We are a media company that owns a chocolate manufacturing plant that creates innovative chocolate snacks. But at the core, we continue to tell our story every day that's very unique to this industry of CPG.

Jeff [00:03:05] I want to hear the Mid-Day Squares story and for those that haven't seen it yet, you have to go and check it out on TikTok or Instagram, but let's hear it from the horse's mouth, Jake. Let's hear the startup story.

Jake [00:03:16] My business partners are my family members, my sister and my brother-in-law, but we did not go into business because we're family. We have very different skill sets, and over the last decade of trying different businesses, we've all missed. We've hit some we've missed.

And long story short, my sister was making a snack for her husband, my brother-in-law, a chocolate snack for the afternoon years ago, and she was making it because he was eating junk chocolate. The high sugar, high palm oil, full of junk, and it was making him crash in the afternoon. But every afternoon he'd get that indulgent craving for chocolate. So she made him this snack that was plant-based, clean, it had some protein, fiber, and it was delicious. And he took it to his work every single day, his company and everyone loved it.

Fast forward about two years, he ended up selling out of his company and she ended up closing her fashion brand at the time, and they wanted to do something together. They wanted to work on a project together, and food was the common denominator that they both loved. They realized that they gotta start an innovative product or disrupt some category.

So they tried morning oats first and morning oats completely failed. Then they realized after reading a report from a larger chocolate company, that real chocolate was growing year over year, like 40 to 45%, and that vegan protein or plant proteins were on like a 30 to 35% growth, and my sister was just making a baby of these two massive growth categories.

And then they realized that's the product we're gonna launch. And they've commercialized the product with McGill University, in terms of just using their labs and their food scientists and certain things like that to hit their macros. They then came to me and they're like, “Hey, we need an energizer bunny. We need a third partner here that's gonna make sure that Mid-Day Squares is on fire at all times in terms of brand building, community, network. And I was just like, excuse my language, I was like, “Fuck no!” I'm like, I can't join such a boring industry. In my opinion, when you go to the grocery store, it's full of products that are just price-pointed and commodities.

And I said, “You travel 40,000 items. How are we gonna stand out? Even if we have the best, innovative, most amazing product, it's gonna be very, very hard”. And that's when I realized: What if we took the best from the entertainment world where they tell the greatest stories – Hollywood, TV, Netflix – and we applied it to the CPG world?

Because when I watched my fiance, at the time my girlfriend, go to a store like Sephora, she would have this emotional connection with the brand. She'd be excited, she'd post about it on social media. She wouldn't just buy the product for the functionality. She was buying it because she liked the brand and she was involved. So I said, “How come food, which is an intimate experience, isn't having that?” And that's when I decided to join the company and I said, “I got the best idea. We're gonna share everything. Everything on social media. Like we're gonna show cameras 24/7 rolling in our homes. We're gonna show how we build the business and if we make it or we don't make it, people are gonna see the good, the bad, the ugly.” And that's what has been key in terms of our rocketship growth over the last four and a half years.

Jeff [00:05:55] It's such, such an incredible journey and I really recommend that people go and check it out. And even just for me, as I was learning more about it, I got pulled into it. I was getting sucked into the story and I was like, “When is season two coming out? Like, sign me up for season three.” It's just a, it's a good watch, but also for me as an entrepreneur, I appreciate you guys showing that transparency because I don't think people understand what it's fully like to run a business.

I know that at Neo and even at Skip, I would say, “I think we're at like, you know, 3 or 4,000 employees now,” and they'd be like, “What?,” They're like, “I thought it was just like you and, and you know, the brothers in the basement writing code.” But what they don't understand is like all the trials and tribulations and the drama that goes with it.

But this isn't your first startup company. It sounds like your brother-in-law had a company as well. Your sister also had a clothing company. How important were those experiences, to have those under your belt prior to teaming up on Mid-Day Squares?

Jake [00:06:51] Well, you're right. I think most people don't get to see what goes on in building a business, they see the final product and they're like, “Oh, I'm buying this $2.49 cents chocolate bar. Yeah, that's, that's fine. That's easy, they make it at their house, whatever.” They don't know the complexity of the scaling, the dealing with, you know, the many people that work here, the emotionality, you know, legal battles, raising money, how do you win? You know, it's very difficult. So when you show it, it gives more of a perspective to the consumer where they start to empathize for the brand. They start to feel more connected and more attached. Which is what we need in a market where it's dominated by 8 to 12 brands that own the entire grocery store. So that's number one.

But I think the key factor, what your question is, is how important is it that we went through all these experiences? Yeah. We wouldn't be here today without that decade of trial and tribulations, because I learned how to tell a good story through my experiences, my past businesses. I used Snapchat in my first business to grow it as a fitness business and I killed it with it. I was always storytelling. My second business, I used Instagram, so I learned these platforms.

But what I also learned was what I'm shit at. And it's important to know what you're not great at in life because if you start banging that nail on what you're bad at, it's gonna affect the business. It's gonna affect the people you work with and it's gonna hurt you mentally and physically, potentially.

And what I learned over my decade of entrepreneurship was I'm a shit operator. I'm a shit manager. And what I mean by that is I'm great with people in the sense of, you want me to build relationships, I can do any relationship, I can get in touch with probably anyone in the world, just give me a couple of months and I will do it using social media and showing up physically. But I only learned that eight months into the first part of Mid-Day Squares.

I originally was the CMO, so I was managing all kinds of people and I was doing horrible. Horrible! I was failing and I was hurting. And I went to my therapist. I go to therapy once, twice a week minimum, with my partners. And we finally agreed that I could step outta that. Even if I own a third of the company, I don't need to be a manager, I could be managed.

And that was a big ego change switch, like I said, without learning all that through the past. This wouldn't be working. And same thing with my brother-in-law and my sister and any other entrepreneur out there. I think the testing of what you do and getting the flow of getting into uncomfortable zones and comfortable zones and going back and forth, seeing what things look like, you start to see the world very differently. And then you start to learn yourself at a very deep level, which is not an easy task to do.

Jeff [00:09:08] No, and that's a hundred percent right. And I think a lot of people, when they look at starting a business, they think, “Hey, I, I need to be good at everything. I need to know how to market, and I know how to do ops, manage people, [and] finance.”

It's not really about trying to be good at everything. I think it's about doubling down on what you are good at and then finding other people who are good at the things that you're not. How has the team that you've built helped round out your own strengths and weaknesses?

Jake [00:09:36] We partnered my, my sister and brother-in-law, not because we're family. It's great that we are family, but we partnered because our skill sets are completely different. So what I'm good at, they're not necessarily good at. What they're good at, I'm not good at. So when you put it all together, It actually equates to a tripod that's standing. So I'm very good at building a network.

My partners are more introverted, right? So like I'm a big extrovert. I could be out there with the crowds and talking on TV, all this stuff. They like ops, they really like to build out like manufacturing plants, R&D, innovation. So when you put it together, you're acquiring a real business. The problem is a lot of partnerships, and I'm sure you've seen in the past cuz you know you're a serial entrepreneur, is sometimes there's not an alignment on that where people aren't playing to their skills, they're playing to their weaknesses. It creates tension. There's a lack of communication, and then things just fall apart.

For me, if I give any advice to anybody, and I'm no expert, but what I have learned is that if you play to your strength, you're giving yourself the best opportunity to win. If you start playing to your weaknesses, you're gonna slow down that process of achieving success or completely disrupt it and kill that chance.

So find your strength and find someone that has your weaknesses that could do that, even if it means not a co-founder, but hiring somebody. We have certain people in here that are amazing at things that the three of us are terrible at, and without them, we wouldn't be here today. And that's why it's important to have a team that compliments each other, but can also work together and can also agree to disagree, but work together still. I think that's super important too.

Jeff [00:11:05] Even just you coming on here and saying, “Hey, I really suck at this. I suck at that,” for some reason, people are afraid to admit that I, there there's a, there's a hesitancy to admit that. But everyone knows, generally everyone knows that they're not good at everything.

They just don't want to talk about it. You're quite open and I feel like that's, In a lot of ways, like, it's a superpower that you guys have because it's like, listen, I'm not gonna be managing a hundred people because that's not what my superpower is. I'm good at building up the hype, getting the word out, telling the story, and so you're not getting pulled into the areas, as much, that you aren't as good at. That's I think, really when teams really do a lot of their best work.

Jake [00:11:41] Jeff, you're a hundred percent right. And getting swamped into the stuff that I really dislike, it's just gonna make my experience miserable. And when I'm miserable, I'm definitely not optimized on my performance or my productivity. And I think that everyone's gotta realize it's okay to let go of certain things. It's okay to let go of your ego. And [if] you're not great at something, admit it. I think our vulnerability and transparency from day one has been a big reason of our relationships that we've built with, you know, retailers, investors, journalists, people that have helped us grow this company, you know, hopefully keep growing it. It is the connectivity that the human-to-human, they feel like they are attached because there's no bullshit.

It's harder to be somebody else, Jeff, than to be yourself. So if you're hiding all this stuff, you're just blocking. You're blocking. The moment you let it out, and I'm not saying you have to share everything, but the moment you let out certain things, you're gonna relieve the bricks off your shoulder, you're gonna help yourself.

We're still worried about the judgment. People in our society. We're worried about judgment of others or what other people think about us. You gotta drop that because the moment you do, I'm telling you that's what real freedom in real life looks like. That's the actual definition of freedom, is you just living life the way you wanna live and be who you are.

Jeff [00:12:50] You look at what you guys are putting out there in terms of content on TikTok and on Instagram, and then you look at what normal, like, ordinary like influencers are putting out there. Maybe like five, 10 years ago it was like passive income was the big thing. And it was all about these, like every commercial was like, Oh, hey, I'm just like in my garage with my four Lambos and you know, I've got like three…

Jake [00:13:10] Oh horrible!

Jeff [00:13:10] Three pools and it's like, yeah, make you know, 10 grand every month and I don't have to lift a finger.

I feel like there's almost like a generation of people who kind of got brainwashed into thinking that that's what entrepreneurship is like. If that's what you thought it was gonna be like when you started your company, you're in for a pretty rude awakening once you actually get into it. And then you watch what you guys are putting out and it’s like, this is real.

Jake [00:13:31] It's real. And I think that you're right. There was this whole concept on: never share the bad, like be tough. It's like, yo, when I first started this business, I was, I'll never forget Jeff, my partners said, I have one request, cause I asked for them to share their life and they're introverts, right? So they didn't really wanna put it on social media.

But that was a key component of our success to get out there. Right? But they said, if you, if we're gonna do this and commit to this, you need to commit to therapy with a therapist. And I was like, I am the happiest person, Jeff, on the road. I am a sports guy. I was in a fraternity. I'm like, I'm too cool for that. That's weak. That's what I thought 4 and a half years ago.

They were telling me that if I don't do it with them every week, in good or bad times, I couldn't join the company. And I was like, you're gonna throw this all away for a therapy session. And they were like, yeah. And when I did it, I ended up falling in love with it. I now go twice a week and it's the only reason why I'm here today.

And because entrepreneurship is very challenging. It is a difficult road. You are trying to do something typically against the odds where usually it fails. Communication's hard. You are with humans all the time. You have to manage a bunch of humans, which is emotional. And most importantly, it's a lonely road at times. I talk to a lot of people, but I feel very lonely and depressed at times because the swings of the greatness to the hardships are very high and very low, and you gotta find your flow right?

I don't know, I've cried myself to sleep about 30 plus times throughout this journey, and I never did that before. So this is like the real shit of human life. But again, I see a vision so clearly and a purpose so clearly that I still feel so free and excited and energetic. That this is what I'm supposed to be doing, right? But again, the vulnerability, the transparency, the human aspect is what's actually getting me through this journey.

Jeff [00:15:12] Talk about the high highs and the low lows, because I feel like a question I struggle to answer when people ask me about Neo or about entrepreneurship is, “How's it going?” How do you answer that question?

Jake [00:15:25] I always say to myself, like, I'll be on top of the world at some moments, you know, on TV, on radio, on, you know, getting awards, killing it at retailers, getting some great news, and I'll feel unstoppable. And I actually don't, I don't wanna talk about it with people because I, I feel like it's too much and people are, you know, might get annoyed and stuff like that.

But then there's like the deep lows, which I actually, you know, I do share. And they are part of the journey. And when someone asks me, I don't wanna depress them. I don't want to give them the “this is how close we are to bankruptcy”, or “this is how close we are to closing this business or giving up.”

And that's why I find that question extremely difficult to answer. And what I do now is I just say things are going, we're trying. And somebody will say, you guys are killing it. You guys are on fire. And even if we are, I just say it's, it's a day-by-day thing. It's a hustle. It's good, bad, ugly, and that's the best way to answer.

When I'm with an entrepreneur, it's a lot easier because they can understand certain moments a lot because they've seen it or they've been through it. But most of the time I just say day-by-day, you know, the hustle's real, some amazing stuff. But also, here's the shit stuff. I want to balance it always, I'm always trying to balance it cause I don't wanna make people feel anything uncomfortable.

Jeff [00:16:28] And especially when they ask, you know, how is it going? And you maybe just had a manufacturing issue or a distribution partnership fell apart, or it could have been the other way. It could have been like, hey, you fixed manufacturing. You got a huge distribution partnership. It doesn't really tell the whole story.

Jake [00:16:42] I always pick and choose my battles. Look, when we're in a legal battle, for example, and it's shit, it's really not fun. To explain that to someone that's never been through it is difficult. But to explain it to someone that's been through it, it's a lot easier, so I can have the conversation.

And I think over the journey, I thought that this is a big moment and I'm gonna explain you something, I'm gonna say something right now that's very interesting. I think a lot of people go through it is, people grow up with their friends, their best friends, their childhood friends, and not all of them are on the same journey. They're not all on the same path.

So for me, when I'm going through something crazy and emotional and really hardcore in my life, I don't share it anymore with my childhood friends and the reason. I have a hard time relating. And the relatability is what kills me. I expect too much. You know, they'll tell me, why are you at the plant on a Saturday night when you could be here coming out partying?

And they don't do it to me with bad intentions. They're doing it with good intentions, but the idea is, I can't get into the explanation. They'll be like, oh, just leave it, it's fine, don't worry about it. For me, that kills me because it's like, I can't. So what I do is now I find people, Jeff, like you and other people, where I just call randomly and I just jam and I feel that relatability where I don’t even have to talk to, hangout, party with you, whatever it is all the time. But that one month, once a month when I call you and there's just that relatability kick on certain things, it re-boosts my energy and it re-gives me the, the less lonely feeling is what it is.

Jeff [00:17:58] It does help knowing that there's other people kind of in the trenches with you. I think that's actually one of the most rewarding aspects of startups in general. And it's not limited to just founders. Cause I think there's also a lot of early employees who are like founders and are taking maybe not the same amount of risk, but are taking risks.

From my experience, like when you're, when you go through difficulty together, there's something that occurs between people. There's a bond that's formed, a shared experience, a shared difficulty, and when you come out on the other side of it and say, Hey, I am struggling with this challenge, you know, and sometimes you're at the point where like, I don't know of a way out. And having those people that you can bounce it off of, and then getting through it, it's such an amazing feeling. And then that bond that you have with those people, because you did it with them, there's nothing else like it.

Jake [00:18:47] But here's the kicker. The truth is you as anyone that's going through this, surround yourself with good people. Because I'm lucky I had my partners at the beginning because my partners and I were all going through the same horribleness that this journey took at the beginning.

We also invested in therapy as a safe zone to have very hard conversations. I know it's not always affordable for everybody, but it's an investment, not an expense, remember that. It's an investment in yourself, and I think that the three of us wouldn't have made it without therapy, without this Dr. James Gavin, who's a phenomenal individual. I'm telling you we wouldn't make it.

And also just like knowing that you're not alone on this journey, whatever it is, whether you're working at a company, whether you started your own company, is super key because that loneliness can get, can get really tiresome, exhausting. It can lead to burnout. It could lead you to not want to be motivated or inspired to do something.

So I think that like, find your corner and or find a book or find someone you follow on social media that inspires you because it's the same thing. These are like mentorships in different formats. I am mentored by all kinds of people that I don't even know because I watch them and I watch how they get bolder and bolder and they make me bolder, right?

So I think that that's where you as a human gotta do your homework as well to finding those pockets of information or pockets of people that can elevate you or relate to you at whatever time in your life that you.

Jeff [00:20:07] So I wanna go back and talk a little bit about some numbers here. So you guys started up in 2018. Since then, you guys have built your own fully automated factory that can produce 90,000 chocolate bars a day. 90,000!

Jake [00:20:21] It's a lot.

Jeff [00:20:22] That just sounds like chocolate bars, like coming out of a, like a Gatling gun. You've hit 17 million dollars in sales last year. This sounds like a decent amount of growth here. This might be the fastest growing one that you've experienced. Is that true?

Jake [00:20:38] So, yeah, so we could do 90,000 bars per day, but we're not at the capacity right now. We do about 45 to 50,000 per day. It keeps getting made and all that stuff. Yes, this is our fastest growing because in the food space and CPG like, you know, 17, once you cross that 20, 30 million mark, you're in a very interesting territory of being very popular or targeted.

People are interested because it's very hard to scale in CPG because the infrastructure was not granted for emerging brands. It's better for, like the Pepsis, the Coca-Colas, the General Mills, they've built it over a hundred years. So they have it distribution-wise, all this stuff.

So for smaller brands, a lot of them don't even make it past the 5 million or 10 million mark because they can't scale it. So for us, that's the biggest thing is we're on our way to profitability, hopefully in the next four months to get there to a break even point. That will be a massive milestone for this business because it has been difficult.

We didn't build a factory because we wanted to. We built a factory because the co-manufacturers were unable to make or scale this product. So we had no choice [but] to do it. And we wanna go from May ‘23 to May ‘24, we wanna get to about 30, 35 million. And then jump maybe that 70 million the year after. That's really gonna be the vision. And then continue to tell our story, continue to build a fun brand, and hopefully continue to deliver clean innovation and chocolate and make it functional snacks.

Jeff [00:21:56] And then this is like something that Elon Musk talked a lot about. Anyone can build a great prototype, and I would expect that it's similar in CPG, where it's like anyone can build a great tasting chocolate bar in their kitchen. But can you produce millions of them?

That's the challenging part that I think I see in a lot of companies where you can have a great product, that doesn't matter. That's maybe part of it. On the distribution side, what have been some of the key learnings on getting distribution? Because I've seen you talk a lot about how you're able to get this section of that shelf and that grocery store. So many people are fighting over that space. What was your secret to getting it?

Jake [00:22:29] Telling the story, man. I kid you not, it was sharing the authentic story of how we build this business that created this relatability quickly with consumers where again, they were going to the grocery stores to look for our product because they felt attached to it, or they were going there because they saw it and they're like, oh my God, I know Jake, Nick, Lezlie, and the Mid-Day Squares team, I love what they stand for.

So yeah, today you can't just be a great product and you obviously need product market fit. That's probably the most important thing for any product out there. But the second thing is whoever's gonna be the best storyteller is going to win the game of marketing. And that's what we're focused on is how do we continue to tell an unbelievable story that connects and relates and stays relevant. And that's why we built a media team within our company of just creators and editors. To continuously share that story that happens day-to-day.

Jeff [00:23:13] But when it comes to the story though, like how much of the story should be about the product versus the team?

Jake [00:23:18] In our case, it's 80% about the story of building the business and 20% about the product. Most companies are about the opposite. It's about 90% the product, 10% the story and the team.

Jeff [00:23:28] And an interesting thing about your team is that it's family but like a lot of people are hesitant to get into business with their family and their friends. How has that been a strength or a weakness for you guys?

Jake [00:23:42] It's definitely a strength because of the therapy we put in. The only reason why we went into business is because the three of [our] strengths together are phenomenal. They, they're complimentary, right? So, you know, you put it together and you have that tripod.

That being said, the only reason why the tripod's still standing today, and we are still closer than ever as family is because we put the time in and work, therapy to once, twice a week together. To communicate, to have, understand each other, to work through these problems or these solutions together in a safe zone with an individual that's professional in terms of understanding what's going on, right? Without that, we wouldn't be here. There's no chance.

Jeff [00:24:17] If you think about a normal day, how much of your day is Mid-Day Squares?

Jake [00:24:21] It's almost a hundred percent. Like, you know, my job is to build the network. So I gotta meet people, I gotta do podcasts, TV, radio, performance. I gotta be a feeder, right? I'm giving a workshop tonight at Western in literally two hours and then tomorrow at Concordia. Like I gotta do all that stuff.

So I'm always consistent with people. My partners, their focus is to make sure that the ops is working, that the company's margins are where it needs to be. The money's in the bank account, we have the money. We have the actual team in hand that's doing the job properly. So it's a 24/7 thing in my opinion.

You know, that being said, my partners right now went on a little vacation for five days to Mexico and they completely shut off. There's no focus on the business at all, and that recharges them. I went to [the] Bahamas last week for three days. It wasn't enough. I tried to shut off but I couldn't because I'm still addicted to the networking and the experience of meeting people, so I never actually shut off, which is quite dangerous in my opinion. Yeah, I hope I don't burn out, but I'm monitoring myself. Just to look at the, just the small triggers that are happening. You know, bad moods, lack of inspiration, fatigue, lethargy, all that stuff.

Jeff [00:25:20] When you think about burnout though, like how important is having a good life partner in maintaining that mental health? Because I, and the reason I bring it up is I think it's often they are the unsung heroes behind a lot of successes.

Like I think about my own story, my wife was always there to kind of pick up the pieces when things were falling apart. One of the main reasons I am where I am is because of the fact that she has been there the whole time. Through the ups and the downs. What kind of role has your own partner played in, in your own success so far?

Jake [00:25:50] This is the greatest topic ever! So shout out to my fiance and shout out to your wife. I can't tell you how important and crucial that life partner is during a journey like this, because you have the highs of the highs, but you also have very lonely parts of, you know, being misunderstood, judged, called crazy sometimes, you know, especially when things are smaller. And you're really grinding, grinding, grinding.

My partner's been with me in the ups and downs and without her I wouldn't have a sounding board or a support system that understands exactly what I'm going through, how I feel, and how I could actually like, you know, have a non-biased opinion. Yeah, without her, I don't think I would've continued Mid-Day Squares because it's a painful journey. Scaling a business against the odds is painful. She's been crucial the whole four and a half years I've been with her and we just got engaged three months ago. I always talk about it like that's our fourth partner in the business, even though she's not in the business, she's been there to uplift me to make sure that I don't go down those downward spirals to be tough on me.

And it's been a little bit of a selfish ride for me because it's been a little bit of the Jake show. And I say that because she has a great job and she works really hard and she's passionate about her job. But a lot of the time, the spot's on me and I actually don't like that when I'm with her. I don't want the spotlight at all. I want her to have the spotlight. So we've worked very closely to understand how to build that and give her the spotlight there because when we go to restaurants and people are like, “Oh my, how's Mid-Day Squares? How's this?” They don't ask her which is a problem in my opinion, because hers isn't out there as much, right?

So, I don't know. For me, that's been the greatest lesson is, take care of your personal life. Because without that personal life, your business or professional life will suffer. It will hurt subconsciously, right? I hope she listens to this podcast and I love her dearly and I'm grateful to have her. Otherwise, like, I wouldn't be here today.

Jeff [00:27:32] I mean, I'll second that too. So we'll give, uh, two shout outs there to all the significant others of people who are trying to build really cool companies.

In any company, there's gonna be low lows. And I think oftentimes there's that feeling of despair when you get down there. A lot of people have different ways of, kind of, getting through it, but oftentimes people will just quit. And there is, there is something to be said about just enduring and about just pushing through and just not giving up. What do you draw on when things get tough? To keep on going?

Jake [00:28:00] The, so the best way I do this is our direct messages on our Instagram and our social media with our customers and our fans. And I go through like some of our customer stuff on the email side with our team to just read some of the stuff of why we're doing what we're doing, you know, and like I'll read inspirational stories or like just people showing the love and, and that's who we're doing it for. You know, obviously for ourselves but at the same time, if we can inspire people to be a little bit more bold or to go out there and take a little bit more risk or, or be themselves while giving them a delicious treat that they love for their afternoon, that makes their afternoon better, we're doing something powerful and great for the world.

I know that people say, it's just a chocolate bar, but you know when, when you read some of these messages, it's crazy. It's, it's, but then it makes sense, you know, we're sharing a type of vulnerability that they never see, right? So when they see it, that means like, it shows that everyone's human, right. That alone is inspiring and powerful.

So that's what I do when I'm feeling down. And then I also call my therapist and work through whatever I'm feeling. It's a, it's like a, it's like a tool in my toolbox. And then I realize that I'm actually privileged to be on this journey, and, and life is a short vacation and we've all seen stuff in our lives that have been tragic or traumatic sometimes. And you realize that it could be all taken like this, right? So snap of a finger.

And that's where I go down, that I don't let myself go down that negativity. I might feel shitty but I'll get out of it because I realize that momentum is all based on direction. So you choose the way your direction and momentum will go.

Jeff [00:29:22] That's a great reminder though to companies that are building products for consumers and when things do get tough, to go back to the whole reason you're doing this and the whole reason, maybe this isn't for all entrepreneurs, but, but they should be kind of going back and saying, “Hey, I'm doing this because I want to make customers happy. I want to solve a problem for people.” And the byproduct of that, you get paid for your service or your product. But the primary goal is that thing that you're doing and the fact that when things do get tough, you do go there and it's that reminder that you are doing something pretty special and that customers do love you guys.

Jake [00:29:54] Yeah! And that's the reason why we do this whole thing. That's the gig, that's the momentum, that's the hype, that's the energy of everything. And that's the purpose. So when you actually re-go back to it, you find that energy that was originally there, that you had the passion or the, let's say it's like a caffeine that lasts for a very long time. And for me, that's what I do.

We also have a wall in our office where people come and sign it and leave messages. Our customers, our investors, our fans, whatever it is, that makes me feel better, man, and like it makes the whole journey worth it or something good will naturally just happen after that.

And like, boom! It's like shit, it's like, this is why we do it during all that pain and all that stuff that we go through. And I dunno, it's just little triggers. You need those triggers and reminders to just step, you know, one step back a little bit and, and look outside that zone of the ball, of the, you know, like the, the ecosystem step out of it and then re-look in.

Jeff [00:30:48] if you kind of fast forwarded five years, what would make you happy about Mid-Day Squares in five years?

Jake [00:30:54] So definitely in the next five years, the next three years, we hope to get to a hundred million revenue in Canada and in the United States and really start to build our US business up, you know, to be a powerhouse.

That being said, I think the long term goal is potentially to IPO because that way we could potentially acquire new businesses in the space and innovation and labs to where we could start producing really cool stuff and invest more in our media. Or do a big partnership with a big company to help us grow even more.

You know, we're open-minded on that said, and I'm not saying like, I know people say that you should just sell the company and all that stuff. Maybe that's the case. I don't know. I'm not gonna say that we'll never, ever sell. It would have to be an outrageous amount. But right now we have so much energy and momentum to do it, and purpose that we're gonna go past that hundred million market, maybe build this business globally.

Why not have the next Hershey’s come to exist in over the next 20, 30 years? But a new version, like a better-for-you product. Better-for-you products with a brand that's culturally relevant, that makes people feel something. Why can't there be a new one? Why is that to just be swamped and acquired and then, you know, who knows what happens to those brands after.

Jeff [00:31:52] A hundred percent. And I actually wish there were more entrepreneurs talking like that and saying, “Hey, why can't we be the company going out and acquiring other companies? Why can't we build the next global X, Y, or Z?” And nothing would make me happier to see you guys become one of those companies while still kind of keeping that awesome attitude and that awesome culture that you guys have.

Is there any message that you want to leave with our listeners today?

Jake [00:32:17] Yes, one message. You are your superpower. Meaning, you should go into every day, every minute being unapologetically yourself no matter what. You know, I hope as an entrepreneur, I could show the world that we could hopefully build the next Hershey's by staying true to what we believe in and who we are as individuals.

If that means dancing every day. You know, laughing, you know, wearing beach shirts, it doesn't make a difference. So that's my goal, and I know that when you start to unlock yourself at that deep level, you are literally unstoppable. No one can take that from you, that it's impossible. They can't replicate that. So please be yourself every day and do it unapologetically and be excited about it.

Jeff [00:32:55] Jake Karls, I appreciate you. Grateful for you taking the time. Big fan, we’ll be following you, we'll be eating a lot of Mid-Day Squares. I'm gonna be getting some for the office here. Thank you so much for coming on the show.

Jake [00:33:06] Thanks Jeff, appreciate you.

Jeff [00:33:12] Thank you for tuning into Behind the Brand presented by Neo. If you enjoyed today's show and are interested in learning about Neo for Business or our customer products, visit us at neofinancial.com. And don't forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, so you never miss an episode.